Subj:	TRAVELLER digest 273
Date:	95-05-02 19:21:23 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From: traveller@mpgn.com
Sender: traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to: traveller@mpgn.com
To: traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)

			    TRAVELLER Digest 273

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) NASA Data and stuff
	by Mark Clark <markc@brahms.udel.edu>
  2) Comments on Aliens Book
	by Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
  3) RE: TRAVELLER digest 272
	by Neil Taylor <neil@owl.uk.gdscorp.com>
  4) Sneeks and Geeks
	by cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
  5) Lotsa things...
	by pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
  6) Higher TL designs
	by "Joni Virolainen" <VIROLAINEN@Operoni.Helsinki.FI>
  7) Re: Sneeks and Geeks
	by "Christopher Weuve" <caw@intercon.com>
  8) K'kree in Traveller: how have you used them?
	by Aaron DaMommio <aarond@pencom.com>
  9) KU#6 is in the works
	by myhre@oslonett.no
 10) Re: K'kree Starships
	by bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
 11) Re: Sensors
	by bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 20:22:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Clark <markc@brahms.udel.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: NASA Data and stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950501200935.22381A-100000@brahms.udel.edu>

> I'm sure I read somewhere that NASA have a huge warehouse somewhere
> containing all the data & blueprints needed to build a Saturn V, but they
> no longer have a machine that can read them.

BZZZZT!  Sorry, wrong.  Most of the blueprints and data for Saturn V and
other Apollo hardware (which were hardcopy, not computer files, by the
way) were destroyed, officially as part of cost-saving measure, actually
to make it impossible to go back on the decision to build the Space
Shuttle.  Speaking as a former NASA historian, you would be surprised at
how little documentation exists, and how hard it is to get at the stuff
that does exist.

On the other hand, there are gobs of reel to reel tapes of data from NASA
science missions (including Apollo) sitting around in climate-controlled
storage, with no money to read and decode it and no prospect of it ever
being read.  Rather sad, really.  

Mark Clark


"It's easier to teach a pilot to pick up rocks than to teach a geologist 
to land on the Moon."    Annon.

------------------------------

Date: 01 May 1995 21:29:06 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Comments on Aliens Book
Message-ID: <1361899486.100095946@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca>

Some time ago I promised a review/comments on the Aliens of the Rim
supplement.  Although a bit disorganized, here are my opinions.

After the usual intro stuff, there is a one-page report from the 'Special
Intelligence Branch', which lays out several interesting (and mutually
contradictory) conspiracy theories.  This rather nicely introduces the
problem with Hiver manipulation: like talking to a social psychologist, you
can never be certain if the Hiver is telling you the truth or experimenting
on you.  

The next four pages detail Hiver physiology.  Mainly a repeat of the original
CT module.  Interesting and non-controversial.

The next 13 pages detail Hiver origins, history, and society.  There are
three threads: the 'official' Hiver viewpoint, a sarcastic Ithklur dissenter,
and a few SIB glosses.  Most of the time the threads agree on what happened,
while having very different interpretations on reasons and significance. 
Imagine reading a history textbook annotated by a rival professor.  

Someone complained earlier about the story in the section of K'kree eating
Ithklur, saying that the K'kree are herbivores and wouldn't do that.  I
consulted a biologist, and herbivores do willingly eat meat!  For example,
deer kept in crowded pens will eat each other even when fodder is available. 
Apparently stress does really wierd things to their minds, and as herbivores
tend not to have surrender reflexes...  In fact, the biologist speculated
that carnivorism might be more widespread than the K'kree admit, although it
is probably viewed as an intolerable perversion: something like cannibalism
among modern humans.

The next three pages talk more about Hiver psychology.  

The next nine pages give players details on being a Hiver: attributes,
careers, skills, etc.

The next three pages provide referees details, including some alien
motivations and more template NPCs.  

The next five pages are about Hiver Dreamers.  These NPCs are rather like
prophets, and can make good plot devices.

The Hiver section concludes with two pages of advice on using Hivers,
including yet more reminders that history is fiction, not fact (something
frequently ignored by non-historians).

After a one-page SIB preface on the Ithklurs, there are two pages on
physiology, one page on history, and 14 pages on Ithklur philosophy.  The
philosophy section is well-done (I think I recognized elements of eastern
religions blended with early Christian heresies and neo-Platoism as well as
other material I can't recognize, which may be original).  It certainly
provides a sound basis for playing an Ithklur character.

This section is also where we learn that the Ithklur like ancient American
jokes and trivia.  Seeing as I can't understand why some of the jokes are
funny, I can see how this would confuse post-Imperial humans.  (Why _is_
"Jane, you ignorant slut" a joke?)  In my game I'll probably translate this
section from "ancient Terran cultural references" to "ancient Imperial
cultural references" because I don't see the Ithklur picking this period in
history.  On the other hand, I may well use this material as examples of the
_kind_ of trivia that Ithklur like, because my players can relate to it
(especially those that watch American TV and movies).

The players' section is 14 pages long, mainly careers and character stuff. 
This is where the philosphy section is put into practice: an Ithklur's
philosphy of life governs his career path.

The referee's section is only two pages, mostly alien motivations and
template NPCs.

There's an eight page appendix covering things like modified design
sequences, modified rules, new equipment, and so on.

Finally, there's a four page glossary (local colour) and two character
generation worksheets.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 07:53:41 EDT
From: Neil Taylor <neil@owl.uk.gdscorp.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: TRAVELLER digest 272
Message-ID: <0098FBEA.4E992C80.4@arc.uk.gdscorp.com>

>Why aren't starships fitted with telescopes
>that have advanced image enhancement so once an object is located an 
>attempt can be made to view it?

they are, but... you try to detect the other starship at extreme range, and
when 
at those limits you cannot resolve further detail.  Of course, as it gets
closer 
you can get decent images.

>what is the 
>information being collected by the EMS sensors, and other sensor types.

anything that stands out from the background of stars:

light - as IR from hot drive exhausts,
	as radio from electrics
	as visible light reflected, or more likely by occulting background stars
neutrinos etc from fusion reactors
(in MT, gravitic radiation)

an electronic camera and photomultiplier can automatically scan for stars
being 
occulted, which is hard to avoid even if you switch off drives and other 
sources... from the pattern of occultations and your own motion, you can work

out where the opponent ought to be and how they seem to be moving, but if all

you have is a set of shadows in front of stars, its pretty hard to build up
an 
image of the offender!
To really hide a starship, you need to set a course similar to in-system 
asteroids, set the ship slowly tumbling and stop accelerating; otherwise
you'll 
stand out from the other lumps even with the drives off.


--------------------------------------------------+
-- Neil Taylor              neil@uk.gdscorp.com --|
-- Graphic Data Systems Ltd,                    --| 
-- Wellington House, East Rd, Cambridge CB1 1BH --|
--------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 09:34:08 +0100 (BST)
From: cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Sneeks and Geeks
Message-ID: <m0s6DPF-0003tqC@ccub.wlv.ac.uk>

Greetings all

	Having  got  a copy of the said mainusript  yesterday   i
have  to admit that the pun on the back got 14 out of 10  on  the
groan factor , but hten again has anyone rad the credits section ?

	The   rest   of   the  book   will   be   examined   this
morning/afternoon hopefly during my chemistry prac. ( joy) and  a
full  " Hey look at this " report from yet anoughter reader  will
be posted.

	

 	On anouther point.

Any  one  who  wants the TNE stats for  the  2300  slug  throwers
should  drop  me  a  line and ill E-Mail  them,  them.   This  is
however Just the same files as before.....

And  does  any  one out ther want the TNE  stats  for  the  DSV-1
Liberator  (  from  Blakes 7 ) , If you do ill put  it  along  as
well,  it wont get listed as the fact that a 40 Km long  starship
with stutter warp and 6 foot of bonded super coherant  composites
as  armour  is a little beond the scope of TNE, especily  with  3
Meson guns that out range the sensors that are avilable.

Bye for Now 


Lawrence Bryant
cs5025@ccub.wlv.ac.uk
-- 
oh rose thou art sick
               the invisible worm that flys by night.....STEEL


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 10:24:23 -1600
From: pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Lotsa things...
Message-ID: <9505020217.AA29975@phq1002.wapol.gov.au>

Just a few random thoughts...

1/ Having wrapped my brain around FF&S for a few weeks now, I'm going to
take a break and get around to something I've been meaning to do for a while
- collapse subsectors N and O (Capella and Gemini) of the Solomani Rim.  One
question - should I apply the Hard Times effects before I calculate the
Collapse effects?  I'm fairly certain that I should, it's just that I'll
have to go out and buy 'Hard Times'.

2/ Subscribers in Western Australia (or anywhere else for that matter).
There's a great games store here that has a pretty good stock of old and
second hand Traveller materi=E8l (CT and MT mainly).  I'm in the process of
getting a complete list, which I'll post here.  If anyone want's anything,
I'll grab it and send it to them for cost plus postage.  For the Sandgropers
out there, the place is called Valhalla Games and Hobbies, and it's on
Wellington Street, opposite the Perth train station.

3/ Unfortunately, the same store is waaay behind on new TNE stuff (bugger).
In fact, there's nowhere in Perth that has more than a smallish proportion
of the published TNE material...I know that it's the world's most isolated
city and all, but pleeease GDW, help us!

Right...glad I've got that off my chest!
Michael Bailey (pd82495@wapol.gov.au)

"...you mad-dog, shaven head, bottle boy freaks..."
                                      Marillion, "Berlin"



------------------------------

Date:          Tue, 2 May 1995 15:19:25 EET
From: "Joni Virolainen" <VIROLAINEN@Operoni.Helsinki.FI>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Higher TL designs
Message-ID: <29E6CDC16CE@operoni.helsinki.fi>

What do you think that if TL12 designer designs a TL5 vehicle and it 
is supposed to be manufactured in TL5 world, should it be somehow 
better that those designed in TL5 world? 

**********************************
* "I'll be bag"                  *
* - An anonymous alligator       *
*                                *
* Joni Virolainen                *
* virolainen@operoni.helsinki.fi *
**********************************


------------------------------

Date: Tue,  2 May 1995 08:27:53 -0400
From: "Christopher Weuve" <caw@intercon.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Sneeks and Geeks
Message-ID: <9505020827.AA53117@caw.intercon.com>

Hello,

I would be very interested in seeing these things.  Feel free to email me 
direct.  Thanks!

Christopher Weuve [caw@intercon.com]
My words, not InterCon's.

> Any  one  who  wants the TNE stats for  the  2300  slug  throwers 
> should  drop  me  a  line and ill E-Mail  them,  them.   This  is 
> however Just the same files as before..... 
>  
> And  does  any  one out ther want the TNE  stats  for  the  
> DSV-1 Liberator  (  from  Blakes 7 ) 


------------------------------

Date: Tue,  2 May 95 08:59:41 -0500
From: Aaron DaMommio <aarond@pencom.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: K'kree in Traveller: how have you used them?
Message-ID: <9505021359.AA00507@arfaduke.pencom.com>


I'm curious to hear how people have used the K'kree in campaigns. I find them

incredibly interesting, but they seem difficult to work into larger  
interstellar society. Can't exactly invite them over for a cookout. Adventure

ideas, descriptions of encounters, etc. would all be interesting.

Has anyone else considered modifications to K'kree society? My first impulse
is  
to give their females a larger role. I see no need for them to remain only  
babymakers. I'm thinking of a structure in which either male or female noble

K'kree can be family heads. Not sure about the details yet. Also, they seem  
awfully stagnant to have survived so long; one could either emphasize their  
resistance to change, and try to decide what societal mechanisms they might  
have to support it, or else add elements of change to their society.

I recently recovered my stash of CT products from my younger brother, to whom
I  
foolishly loaned them years ago, and have been poring over the first three  
alien modues (Vargr, Aslan, and K'kree). My interest in Traveller is more in

the universe than the rules.

I hesitated before writing to the TML since I don't have access to any New
Era  
rules, but here's where the K'kree discussion has been going on.

Someone mentioned K'kree reliance on robots; is this mentioned in any post-CT

products? I don't see it in any of my CT material. It certainly stands to  
reason; it's just that robots seemed mostly absent from CT.

--Aaron DaMommio

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 18:19:36 +0200
From: myhre@oslonett.no
To: hiwg-list@fwe.com, traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: KU#6 is in the works
Message-ID: <199505021619.AA27520@oslonett.no>

I'm currently working on KU 6 in HTML. I got a few articles but need more. I 
need adventures, NPC, Starships, graphics, library data and whatever else 
that you think is interesting. See submittions guidelines below.

What I also need is subscribers. And here is how you can subscribe:

E-mail:
If you can receive MIME e-mail let me know and I'll send you a zipfile with 
the Hyperzine, when the rerlease date is set.


Disk:
Mail me a disk with an IRC (not now, but I'll inform in this list and on the 
Traveller mailing list when you can mail me disks). The disk should be PC 
compatible. 


Requirements to read the Hyperzine:
A HTML browser like Mosaic, Netscape, Cello or something like that.


Submittion guideleines:
1) All text should be in one of these formats:
     ASCII
     HTML


2) If you submitt HTML documents, you should note the following:
a) All links out should go to local directory.
b) Prepare anchorpoints to all subheadings
c) on headings should be alphabetical and consist of two letters like this: 
AA, BB, CC etc.
d) All anchors should be in capital letters for ease of finding.
e) You may have links out to previously published material.
f) All subheadings should be indexed at the beginning of the document.
g) There may be only 3 levels of headings. The first one is the article 
title. The next level of headings must be of <h2> format and with first 
letter only in caps. Secondly This level must be indexed as explained above. 
And third level <h3> format.


3) Graphics may be of any format, I can convert most of them, except for EPS 
and other structured graphic files at the moment.


4) Adventures should, if possible, be in nugget format. This type of 
adventures are easy to add HTML code to, as the adventure is structuraly 
laid up from the beginning. There is just to add buttons. 


5) You may submitt by e-mail (MIME), just remember to zip the file first. Or 
by disk to this adress:

Roger Myhre
Ammerudgrenda 168
0960 Oslo


6) I retain the right to edit, add/remove links/anchors and structure the 
article so that the article fits to KU. I will *not* however change to 
content of the article.


7) The articles for KU should be Vargr related.

---

I need also someone to distribute it through Internet by WWW. Is there any 
with a WWW Traveller homepage that is interested. I'll check all sites that 
is reported to me, and from that I'll select one for each of these areas: 
Europe, Australia/NZ and USA/Canada.

Martine Rait,
Can I publish the material you sent me a few months ago?

 Roger Myhre               .
  StarWolf                / V\        "Life Sucks, I rule the world,
 myhre@oslonett.no      / `  /         but I still have to do the
 roger.myhre@niva.no   <<   |          dishes!"
                       /    |                     - Djengis Khan
 HIWG member:        /      |
   142             /        |
                 /    \  \ /
                (      ) | |
        ________ |   _/_  | |
      <__________\______)\__)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 11:53:47 -0500
From: bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: K'kree Starships
Message-ID: <9505021653.AA03988@fred.itlabs.umn.edu>

A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly) wrote:

>For example, K'kree ships are a minimum of about 1000 tons displacement
>because the K'kree hate confinement, so the ship interior is a mock plains
>landscape (grass et al.).

And I've never seen anything civilian under five or six thousand 
displacement tons.  The trouble is, a whole herd has to go along, and
that includes wives, servants, aides, above and beyond the normal 
working crew.  Military ships can be a bit smaller than civilian ones,
since they carry only a K'kree military herd, in which everyone has
a shipboard job.  The standard K'kree military "Frigate" from the
module was a five thousand ton ship, even so.  K'kree just need too
much extra room, between their increased body mass and claustrophobia.
Military crews can be hand-picked and trained to work in enclosed 
spaces, but it's hard for them.  It means that when the K'kree go 
anywhere, they tend to go in force.

<aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk> Andrew Boulton wrote:

>Also, by the very design of the ships (ie open plan), it's hard to seal
>off part of it if the computer decides to open an airlock.

Yeah.  K'kree interstellar travel is rough.  There's two partial solutions.
First, I figure that there must be some sort of emergency "blast door"
system that slams out of the floor if the ship gets holed -- the K'kree
aren't dumb, and they do build warships.  Also, they will use transparent
partitions if they absolutely have to enclose a space, so a truly large
K'kree craft (and there are few that aren't) could be composed of several
cells.  Did I mention that K'kree *hate* starship travel, even in their
own ships?

I think they're fun ships to build, though.  I've been working on and
off on another K'kree ship design for TNE that may eventually see the
light of day, depending on how it goes.

Bri Kaszycki <bri@teleport.com> wrote:

> So with that in mind, am I the only one who thinks that they would have 
>survived the Virus alot better off then most?

I think the K'kree will survive the Virus fairly well, since they only
settle "blue-sky" worlds, and should have lower than average tech levels.
It would be interesting to generate a sector with the K'kree world gen
rules, and then Collapse it and see what happens.  And as much as the
K'kree hate star travel, they'd be driven to it to reunite the herds. 
That leaves the ten teracredit question, "What is the Black Curtain
anyway, and does it stretch all the way to K'kree space?"

Incidentally, one thing that was nice about the extensions to world
generation in the K'kree worlds was a roll to determine if a system
had "native" sentient life.  In K'kree space, it came out to one in
thirty-six systems, almost three percent.  I figure that this is 
after they've killed the local carnivores, so let's say that the
number should be roughly doubled in the Imperium, to one in twenty, 
another easy-to-roll probability.  If the Domain of Deneb region has
1277 systems, and according to DGP in MTJ #1, 48 native alien races,
this comes out quite close.  The fact that it's a bit low could have
something to do with the fact that the Marches are suspected to be
the Ancients' old, er, stomping grounds, in a literal sense. 

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 11:55:38 -0500
From: bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Sensors
Message-ID: <9505021655.AA03998@fred.itlabs.umn.edu>

<J.Dixon@massey.ac.nz> wrote:

>My roleplaying group are interested in knowing exactly what is the
>information being collected by the EMS sensors, and other sensor types.
>This would help us to understand what can and can't be determined about
>other starships in encounters.  Why aren't starships fitted with telescopes
>that have advanced image enhancement so once an object is located an
>attempt can be made to view it?

Check out page 315 of the TNE rule book.  Passive EMS includes "computer
image enhancement" of the object, and while they don't say so very
clearly, I believe that optical wavelengths are included.  When you
consider that even the little 30 Mm PEMS on the Far Trader has a 3.5 
meter effective lens diameter (see FF&S), these sensors have incredible
resolving power, like a spy satellite.  If the ship is close enough,
and your PEMS effective lens array big enough, you might be able to read 
the name of the closing ship off the hull!  Of course, jitter will be
a problem, but that's what computers are for. 

As for the "other" listings, gravitic densitometers can be used to map
geological variations in density, neutrino sensors are useful in the
study of stars, and neural activity sensors can detect sentient life
forms, but only at short ranges.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 273
***************************


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